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Talking About Money, with Lindsey Stanberry

Talking About Money, with Lindsey Stanberry


Episode 143: Talking About Money, with Lindsey Stanberry

From working publishing house basements to being the editor of one of Refinery 29’s most sought-after sections, Money Diaries, Lindsey Stanberry, joins us this week to talk about how her career started. She shares her insights on how to handle being laid off, how learn from others’ mistakes when it comes to money management, and how the individuals on Money Diaries deal with a story going viral. Lindsey also discusses some of the most interesting stories she’s encountered while writing her book, as well as stereotypes when it comes to women and money.


Episode Transcript

00:13 Kristy Wallace: Hello and welcome to the Ellevate podcast. This is your host, Kristy Wallace, and today I have a special guest co-host.

00:23 Katherine Heller: I'm not Maricella.

00:24 KW: You're not Maricella. This is Katherine Heller.

00:26 KH: Hello.

00:27 KW: Whom, you have heard us talk about before and she is the magic behind the mic, the woman who does all the wonderful things that brings you the Ellevate podcast every week. She makes it sound wonderful, and she is joining me today to help introduce this segment. Maricella is still out for the holidays, and so I'm really excited to have Katherine step in and join me in introducing our fantastic podcast guest this week who is Lindsey Stanberry.

01:03 KH: Oh, shocks. Kristy, thank you so much for that introduction. My pleasure, I love working with you, I love listening to you and Maricella talk. There's a lot of outtakes that make me laugh, and I'm working on a blooper reel for all of you. So hello.

01:15 KW: Oh, I can't wait to hear that one. [chuckle] And many of our regular listeners know I love when I'm on the podcast to talk about how I met our guests, if we have a backstory. And so Katherine and I actually have a backstory. We have been friends for almost 20 years now.

01:31 KH: Oh, yeah.

01:31 KW: Yeah?

01:32 KH: Yes.

01:32 KW: Yes, we have.

01:34 KH: Oh wow. We look good.

01:35 KW: We do. We look very good.

[chuckle]

01:38 KH: We have been through a lot together.

01:40 KW: We have been through a lot together. So 20 years friendship, and it happened, we were at a party at my house and Katherine was telling me about a podcast that she has, Tell The Bartender, and The Struggle Bus. Check them out, they're great podcasts, and I happened to say, "Oh, we're thinking about doing one. Tell me more." And then that led us to where we are today.

02:01 KH: I had just started my business. I had just had one client at the time. So, yeah, thank you for the opportunity, and it's been a blast working with you. I learn a lot too, I get to sit in on these interviews, I get to hear the guests, I get to listen back when I edit it. And I have learned so much about money, finance, business, just from even editing the show. So you've helped me, I quote you guys all the time.

02:24 KW: Oh, well. Thank you. Thanks so much.

02:24 KH: You can't be what you can't see.

02:26 KW: And that just goes to show the power of networking, and the power of learning from others and their stories. We fully believe in that at Ellevate. And if it weren't for that conversation at a party, we may not be here with Katherine, and the wonderful guests throughout the years who've been sharing their stories and insights, have really helped all of us get ahead.

02:48 KH: Hey, Kristy, speaking of networking, do you have a promotion coming up?

[chuckle]

02:52 KW: Oh, well, Katherine, funny you should ask. Actually, January... Many of you know January is a big month here at Ellevate. It's a big month for all of us. We have New Year's resolutions, we think about what's happening in the year ahead, we think about our lives, and our goals, our dreams and aspirations. But at the end of the day it starts with you. It starts with each of us and the actions we take to move ourselves forward, to invest in ourselves and our career, to take that leap that maybe we're afraid to take to try something new. So we hope this year you'll try Ellevate, we have thousands of events.

03:30 KW: Our Squads Program, which is an online peer-mentoring program, helping women gain more confidence, more insights, more advice, and direction in their career, and a whole lot more. Use code "ItStartsWithMe", all one word. ItStartsWithMe at elevatenetwork.com, for 20% off membership, January only. And we hope you'll join us, it's a fantastic network. It's transformed my life and my career, and I know it'll do the same for you.

03:56 KH: I also am a member, and I am also a client. Is that how the commercial goes? I'm also the... I don't know.

[chuckle]

04:04 KW: I'm a member and the... I don't know. I don't know.

04:06 KH: I am a member and I have to say your events are amazing. And I've learned a lot, I've met so many people. A lot of my clients I met through Ellevate.

04:13 KW: Oh, yeah. I hear that all the time. Someone just emailed me this weekend about a webinar that she had led three years ago, and she is still getting inquiries and emails because of it. She just forwarded me something she received right after the New Year. So I was like, "Alright." That's what this is about, women helping women, supporting one another in our careers and our lives to get ahead. It's about who you know, and that those connections to opportunities. And we're all about making that happen. So our guest today is a true powerhouse to set us off on the right foot for 2019.

04:52 KW: Lindsey Stanberry just released her book, Money Diaries: Everything You've Ever Wanted To Know About Your Finances... And Everybody Else's. And she's got the dirt, she's got amazing stories from a number of people talking about real-life situations, and how they manage their finances, how they handled ups and downs. And how they continue to move forward into financial well-being, success, and understanding. It's a great read. It's quick, it's easy, it's super interesting. And it was fantastic having her on the podcast. Did you love it, Katherine? I know you've really spoken very highly about this episode.

05:34 KH: I love this episode, mostly because she talks, and I love it when people talk about failure. You see people with books coming out, and they look like they've got their stuff together. But it's good to know that everyone's human, and have been through tough times. So she talks about temping, and showing up the offices and having to answer phones, and how that was hard, but she learned to be a phone person. And networking, and you have to just show up, and life's tough. She talks about a lot of things that happened that were not good in her career. And I love that about this interview because that really needs to be said more often, the tough times.

06:07 KW: It's the true stories and that type of authenticity particularly around topics like money. We don't talk about money with our friends, with our families. It's something that is often pretty hush-hush, and we need to talk about it more, and learn from others. And I agree with you about failure, it's something that is truly inspiring to me because to be honest I just fail a lot. And when I hear other people do but they keep going, and they turn it around, and resilience and grit, that gets me inspired. And it helps me to understand that I can do that too, and I can continue to move forward. So here is our episode with Lindsey. Happy new year to all of our listeners. Welcome to 2019. This is going to be the best year yet. And don't forget, if you're not an Ellevate member, join today. "ItStartsWithMe", is the code to use for 20% off.

[music]

07:16 KW: So I'm very excited to have our guest here, Lindsey Stanberry, editor of the Money Diaries. And congratulations on the book.

07:27 Lindsey Stanberry: Thank you.

07:27 KW: I know it's an exciting time. You're in and out doing the book tour. Can you tell me a little bit about how you got started and your career journey?

07:39 LS: I had kind of a weird career. It definitely was not a straight line. I moved to New York in 2003 and didn't have a job and did the temping and turning thing that... I'm not sure many people temp anymore, but it was a weird, scary thing where I had to go and sit behind desks, and answer phones, not having any concept of what a company even did. I was at Pandora before it was like anything. And they were like, "Answer phones," and I was like, "I don't know how to answer phones for you." But it was a good way to kind of get used to just putting myself out there which was really scary when I was 22. And then I got a job at a book packager which is a small company that creates books for big publishers. There was 15 of us, we worked in the basement of this beautiful brownstone in west village. And it was like a family, and it was crazy, and it was wonderful. And I did books with Madeleine Albright and Al Gore. Yeah, I'm not... Working with Madeleine Albright was like a true dream come true. I would Fan girl...

08:42 KW: The whole time?

08:44 LS: The whole time. And she had this chief of staff, who was just really amazing, and a great kind of mentor to me. I didn't really realize it at the time that that's what it was, but she was really incredible. A funny total aside. When I was buying my apartment, I was working on her book and her... I asked her chief of staff to write a letter recommendation for me for my co-op board. And so my letter of recommendation for the co-op board is written on Madeleine Albright's stationary. [chuckle] It's not from Madeleine Albright, but still.

09:15 KW: Still.

[chuckle]

09:16 LS: Still. It was really... So I have a copy saved somewhere, because what a memento. [chuckle] So I was there for seven years, and it was a really great job, but then I was really bored, as you get early in your career. And so I moved over to Martha Stewart and worked on her books and cookbooks, which was a really interesting experience, but also was kind of a tumultuous time in the industry. I think it was 2010, so tail end of the recession, and everything that was going on, and I got laid off. And when that happened it was like, "I don't wanna work in book publishing anymore. I don't know what I wanna do, but I don't wanna do that." And I had the opportunity and also the need to really just talk to a lot of people about what I was gonna do next with my career. And I ended up meeting a man, Jacob Lewis, who was running this small site called Figment, which was a social media site for teenagers. And convinced him to hire me even though I had no digital media experience, and I took a huge pay cut to do it. But I just had a feeling about the job, and the job ended up being really fun.

10:23 LS: And somehow I was back again in the basement of a brownstone, this time on the Upper East Side, which was a lot less romantic and fun then the West Village, although we were in an office across the street from Martin Scorsese's house. I never actually saw Martin Scorsese once in the year that I worked there, but it was a really fun job. And I learned all kinds of amazing skills, and met some interesting people in a year, and we found out we ran out of funding.

10:49 KW: Oh God.

10:50 LS: So we were going to close, which was really depressing. But Jacob was very generous, and he basically opened his Rolodex to us. And that's how I landed at Refinery, quite by accident, and in a role as a copy editor. And I'm a terrible copy editor editor. I don't know where the commas go, I still don't. But while I was there I realized how much I loved writing, which was what I studied in college. I was a Journalism major, and editing really young writers made me realize that, actually I'm not a bad writer myself.

11:23 LS: And so I started writing for the site, and then I wrote the story about how my husband and I saved all this money to buy this apartment, the one that is on Madeleine Albright's stationery, the letter of recommendation. The story did really well and it really resonated with our readers. And after I wrote it, it made me realize that nobody was really talking to women about personal finance in a really smart and interesting way. It was either too pink, or it was really dumbed down, or it was really aggressive sports metaphors. And while I had no personal finance experience, I was like, "Wait. Wait. Maybe I'll just start asking questions, and finding women to talk to me about it." And that actually was the goal from the very beginning was only working with female financial advisors but that's been a really great experience. So I've gotten to work with Sallie Krawcheck.

12:19 KW: Yeah, I know her.

12:20 LS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's been great, and [12:24] ____ and Priya Malani. And I've just collected this really great group of women who answer all my dumb questions and all our readers' dumb questions. And that's been really amazing. I had no idea. I say in the book, "17-year-old Lindsey could have never imagined that she would write a personal finance book one day, but here I am."

12:45 KW: I have so many questions. I have so so many follow-ups. So first, what would you tell 17-year-old Lindsey now?

12:53 LS: Oh, I don't know. I feel like sometimes I'm still 17-year-old Lindsey. I would say, not to be so afraid to talk to people. That was always something that I really struggled with in my teens and 20s. I was always pretty shy. And I'm still really shy. But I think that the best part of my job is talking, these days, and people have such interesting stories and they really want to share. And that most of the best jobs that I've ever gotten have just come through conversations that I've had with people, and opportunities too. So I would encourage her like, "Everybody is a little bit nervous, and you have... You can do this. Your natural empathy is something that will be appealing and people will tell you their stories." Which is amazing.

13:44 KW: That's great. Yeah, that's good advice. As you're telling me your story and how you got here, you got laid off, in another case your company went out of funding. So those are really tough situations to be in. What would you say is sort of... Any advice you would give to someone who is going through something like that?

14:05 LS: There are really tough situations. The lay off it was really such a self-esteem killer. I felt really low about myself after that, and it took me a long time to be able to tell people that I had been laid off. But looking back on it, it was the best thing that could happen to me. I wasn't very happy in the job, I wasn't growing, and I knew that I needed to make a change. But sometimes it can be so hard to make that change when you're in a job, even though everyone will always tell you it's easier to get a job when you don't have a job.

14:39 LS: Yeah. It's easier to get a job when you have a job. Yes, that's true. But it's also kind of hard to find a job when you're in a job, 'cause you do the job everyday and maybe you're in it and your boss isn't great and they don't make you feel good about yourself, so you can't imagine that anybody would ever wanna hire you. So I think that that was one of those times when I just got over myself and my anxiety and just started talking to people. And I would say for somebody who's laid off, "Just do the same." Don't reach out to those people at the top of a company org chart. Reach out to people in your peer group and start talking to them and asking them about how they got there. People love to tell their stories and they usually wanna help, which is pretty great.

15:23 KW: Yeah. It's similar to what you were saying about finance and that we, or you've written that we don't talk as much about finance. I find that there's still quite a need to talk about failure or to talk about getting laid off or anything like that 'cause it happens to pretty much everyone.

15:41 LS: Pretty much everyone. In this economy, most everyone I knew got laid off at some point.

15:47 KW: It happens.

15:47 LS: It happens. And it usually isn't even a reflection of you as a worker. If I had been the person in charge and I was looking over the org chart at Martha Stewart, I would have laid me off. My job was not important. They were paying me too much and I wasn't doing enough, so I got it. And I think that's also an important thing to remember. It's not usually personal. Sometimes it is, and that sucks too. And that's usually probably just the reflections of a bad boss, and you'll get over that too.

16:20 KW: Yeah, it is... I've been thinking a lot about bad bosses, managers lately, particularly as our team has been growing and we were having first-time managers and how to actually set people up for success and the idea of either people leave managers and not jobs many, many times.

16:43 LS: Yeah. Have you figured out how to help people become first-time managers?

16:45 KW: I have no idea.

16:47 LS: I don't either. [chuckle] And I write about careers all day long. It's really hard. I can't figure out if it's like... Is it just inherent that you're a good manager? I don't know.

16:58 KW: There has to be something. I do not know. I've been reading about your books to try and figure that out. But to be honest my first take or my biggest take so far is just that helping people transition from the execution to the actual empowering of others. It's really hard.

17:24 LS: It's really hard. It's really hard. There's so much empathy that needs to go on and managing of everybody's insecurities.

17:32 KW: And curiosity to learn, I think, about the other person.

17:38 LS: Yes.

17:39 KW: I think... And what you said about getting laid off and the hit to your confidence, I think is part of it, even both to first-time managers or anyone, basically. If you don't think you can do it, if you don't think you're gonna be good at something, it just doesn't work.

18:00 LS: Yeah, being a manager is really hard.

18:02 KW: It sucks. No, it doesn't. It's fun. [chuckle] So tell me a little bit about Money Diaries.

18:09 LS: So Money Diaries is the daily financial column that we publish on Refinery and it is a week-long look into a woman's financial life, all of it. So she shares her monthly rent or mortgage, how much she pays to take the subway, how often she refills her gas tank if she has a car. Like everything, you name it. What she's putting through her 401k or if she's not, student loan debt. And then she goes through day by day over seven days, her life, and she's sharing much more than just what she buys at the grocery store or she talks about that bad boss, her boyfriend, her parents, her siblings, her roommate, you name it. She shares a lot way beyond just what she's spending.

18:58 KW: How did you come up with this?

19:00 LS: Yeah. So the origin story of Money Diaries is kind of funny. I work with a really talented editor, Jessica Chou. And we had been experimenting with different formats in working money, trying to figure out what was working and what wasn't. And she came to me and she's like, "I think we should try a money diary," and I was like, "I don't know, I think it might be boring. I think it might be like people just give receipts and not tell stories," and she was like, "Could you... " We try a lot of stuff at Refinery so she's like, "Let's just try, let's just see. Go do one. We'll run it on the site, we'll see how it does." And she gave me the first one and the first one was amazing from the get-go. The woman just shared all these intimate details about her life. She talked about she didn't like her job and so she was stress-spending on beauty products and she had avocado toast one time and she was dating and using online apps to date.

19:58 LS: It was just so relatable and we published it, and it was almost immediately a success. And it just blew up from there. We were doing one a week for a while, and then two a week, and then three a week. And we had a great relationship with our product team at Refinery, and they built out a form for us and that was the ultimate game changer. So now we get about four or five submissions a day.

20:23 KW: That's incredible. That's a lot.

20:25 LS: Yeah, it's a lot. And we publish one a day. Not all the unpublished ones are amazing, but there are a lot that fall through the cracks, and I'm a little sad that we didn't get to publish.

20:38 KW: Why do you think people... I don't know, it's crazy to me that people will just...

20:43 LS: Share all that information?

20:45 KW: Share everything out. Like put everything out there.

20:47 LS: I think that women are really enjoying being able to tell their stories. I don't think that normal women always get a platform to just share what they do, what they love, what they feel. And we all want to be kind of the stars of our own... We are the stars of our own movies, right? And so this is a chance to not show off exactly, but just like be heard. And I think that's really important.

21:17 KW: It's really interesting. I was reading a couple... It's just really interesting, the stuff that's in there. And do you think... And I kept thinking about, and we talk about it at Ellevate quite a bit, which is that power of story telling and how it's so different when you hear someone else's story or their journey, which is why we do this podcast basically, is to hear career journeys and stories, because they give you such a different perspective of what you can be facing. So to turn that, to use that power when it comes to finance, which is something that a lot of people find scary. Do you think it's... Have you heard from your readers that it's made any difference or let their... It's made them think about their stuff in a different way?

22:04 LS: We definitely have heard it's made them think about their stuff differently. I did a panel last year, and some woman came up to me and she was like, "I lurk in the comments, and I don't really comment, but I always write down what they're doing, and I end up Googling it so I can understand it later." And not always do the women... They're not always great financial role models, but we are seeing women that are investing in ETFs or selling their company stock, or real things that women are facing every day, and making decisions about it. The way couples are splitting up their finances, is a big part of these stories.

22:43 LS: We see if you're in a relationship with someone who makes more than you sometimes they're splitting their salary base... Sorry, they're splitting their rent based on their salaries. So if a partner makes more... Maybe it's a 60/40 split, or a 30/70, which is really interesting and I often go through life where... I'm sure a lot of people are like this, is like, "You don't know about it until you know about it," and then it's like, "Oh my gosh, I should have known this all along." And I think that reading Money Diaries, can be revelatory like that.

23:18 KW: Yeah, and even if they're not great financial role models, at least you can learn from people's mistakes I guess.

23:23 LS: True, I think you really can.

23:26 KW: What's the most surprising thing you've seen in these stories?

23:30 LS: I've always a little surprised by the couples and how they split their money. I still think it's really funny that married people will then know each other for Netflix costs. [chuckle] I just... At the end of the day, I'm not sure that's the money that you should be worrying about. I'm sure Netflix, appreciates it.

23:47 KW: I'm sure.

23:48 LS: Not Netflix, Venmo.

23:50 KW: Yeah.

23:51 LS: But it seems a little nit-picky to me. In general, Venmo kind of blows my mind. We'll have diaries where it just feels like every other transaction is, "I've Venmo'd her this, and I've Venmo'd him that." Then...

24:08 KW: Really?

24:09 LS: Yeah. That always surprises me a little bit. Not the lack of cash, but the loss of the like, "I got you," I'll get this one, you get the next one culture.

24:19 KW: I had not thought about that. I remember with my college roommates, we would always say like, "There's 20 bucks that are always going around."

24:27 LS: Always going around. Right?

24:28 KW: Right. Like it's...

24:30 LS: Eventually, it all comes out in the wash. Especially, when you're dating someone where it's like, "I'll just pick up this dinner and you buy the next one, and we'll all make sure it works." But we see couples that are so intense, that they... Maybe intense, is not a fair word. We see couples that are so meticulous, that they're keeping Google Docs where they track all their expenses and then one partner will send the other partner an invoice at the end of the month for however much he owes. And I just think there are better ways you could be spending your time. Even like watching bad TV, I'd rather you be doing that, then...

25:06 KW: I am not that organized, with my life nor will I ever be probably.

25:08 LS: Me neither.

25:12 KW: Anything you've seen that's been kind of eye-opening or that you think like, "Wow, that actually made me learn something completely new"?

25:25 LS: One thing that has been coming up, not necessarily in the diaries but on book tour, that's really opened my eyes to a blind spot that we've had at Refinery, is how many women are really helping their families and trying to figure out a way to include that in their budget. Whether that's like sending money to family overseas or helping a sibling pay for college, these are really big expenses that they're trying to understand how to pay for. And I don't think that that's something that we've discussed enough at Refinery. And it's something that my team and I have been discussing a lot recently and trying to figure out how we can cover more, and really speak to like, this is an expense, even more so than like your student loan debt or beauty products, that has really emotional ties to it. And is that something you can just easily cut out of your budget in order to save money?

26:18 KW: That's a hard one, it's really hard. Interesting. And I know some of the stories have gone viral, quite a few. How has that been, both for you being the person behind the stories, but also to the writers? Because I know they're anonymous, but...

26:36 LS: Yeah, they are anonymous. Whenever they go viral, I'm like, "Just remember that you're anonymous," but that's a hard thing to remember. Yeah, I'm very protective of our diarists. I appreciate what they give us so much. They share so much, and I always try to remind the readers gently and the commenters like, "These people are sharing a lot, we don't need to push them to share more," they share as much as they're comfortable with, and these are really interesting reads.

27:08 LS: It's also interesting to me how when things go viral there's often that feedback that these women aren't real or that it's a parity or that it's a joke, and that always really confuses me. I think it really speaks a lot to the sexism of women telling their stories. I mean, it's not as big as somebody being sexually assaulted, and not being believed, but it kind of just speaks in general to society, not believing in women and what we do and how we speak and how we spend our money. So whenever we have a diary that's especially popular and that's kind of the feedback, I am always struck once again by how sexist all of the speak around money and women is.

28:00 KW: So sad, but it is unfortunate the reality. So it makes me really angry.

[chuckle]

28:07 LS: I know. I know it makes me really angry too.

28:10 KW: A little bit related. How do you deal or suggest to your diarists to deal with sort of that online negativity that they may get?

28:23 LS: Don't read the comments.

28:24 KW: Don't feed the trolls.

28:25 LS: Don't feed the trolls. I've talked a little bit about the comments before because I think that the comments on Money Diaries is really interesting. I think that it would be really nice if it was a super supportive place, but I also think that it's not, really speaks to the fact that we have all this anxiety and feelings around money and in some weird way, we're giving people an outlet to express all that emotion that they're not necessarily having these conversations with their friends and family both sharing their diaries, and then reacting to the diaries. And like you said, it's anonymous, the diarist should remember that. You can claim that this is not you as much as you want. But I do worry sometimes that people don't submit diaries because the comments are so scary. And I get that, I totally do.

29:19 KW: What are some stereotypes about women and money that you'd like to dispel?

29:24 LS: Like all of them. [chuckle] That we're bad with money, that we go shopping all the time, that I hate all the language around budgets and dieting. That drives me crazy. I just feel like when it comes to having conversations about women and money, people automatically go into the most sexist stereotypical arena. I was talking to somebody last night and she was like, "We're all the same, we all have the same anxieties about money and women... " It's hard for everybody and we've gotta figure out a way to make this... Not exactly gender-neutral, but take away some of the silly stereotypes around it. So all of them, just because I get a pay check doesn't mean I'm gonna go out and blow it all on shoes and lattes, I do buy shoes and lattes sometimes.

30:23 KW: Well, both shoes and lattes are awesome.

30:25 LS: Yeah.

30:26 KW: So your book tour, how is that going? It seems like you're traveling and doing a bunch of different things.

30:34 LS: Yeah, we've been in San Francisco and Dallas, and then Chicago and DC. And it's been really fun. Women really wanna talk about money. And they come and they ask these incredibly vulnerable questions; prenupts and unemployment, and, "I have debt from my house, and I'm not sure I even wanna own a home." And, "How do I balance student loan debt versus investing?" It's fascinating, they ask great questions and they're so enthusiastic about it. I'm just always bowled over by the fact that people will put themselves out there like that, and appreciative.

31:19 KW: Yeah, it's exciting. I'm really happy to hear... Honestly, I'm merely happy chatting with you today, even if it's a very Friday-Friday and I can't wait to actually read the book. I know we have one here because I've only been able to read some of the stories, but I think they're so... It's fascinating, just with the few I read, I was like, "It's interesting. Now, I have to start my own money diary, because never done that."

31:47 LS: You should do it.

31:48 KW: What would yours look like?

31:49 LS: Oh, what would mine look like? Not very exciting, these days, 'cause I have a two-year-old.

[chuckle]

31:54 LS: And then everything's expense 'cause I'm traveling which sounds sexy, but is actually not. Yeah, what did I do? I ordered really crappy sushi for lunch. It's like one of those days, right? I ate the office bagels this morning, I ordered wipes on Amazon. It's really so, so unsexy, that's why I do not join the Money Diary, 'cause mine would be so boring. It's like, "I watch Netflix."

[chuckle]

32:21 KW: Mine would be filled with chiropractic visits and stuff like that.

32:25 LS: Oh no.

32:26 KW: Which is not fun. [chuckle]

32:27 LS: That isn't fun. Although, I always find the medical ones to be really interesting, to see how people navigate an accident or a... We have a woman in the book who, a totally normal thing that people go through, but she had an IUD and it got out of place and she had to have it removed, and going through the process of that and then that unexpected expense. Those are a really stressful thing but totally relatable and not completely weird.

32:56 KW: Relatable, that's I think the...

32:58 LS: That's the key of these, right? Somebody asked me one time. What's the craziest thing that happens in a money diary? And I was like, "Money diaries aren't crazy, they're normal and that's kind of the beauty of them, it's just what our weeks are like."

[music]

33:12 KW: That's great.

33:13 LS: Yeah.

33:13 KW: Thank you.

33:14 LS: Thank you so much.

33:18 KW: Thanks so much for listening to Ellevate, if you like what you hear, help a girl out, subscribe to the Ellevate Podcast on iTunes. Give us five stars and share your review. Also, don't get follow us on Twitter @EllevateNtwk, that's Ellevate Network. And become a member. You can learn all about membership and all the great things that Ellevate Network is doing at our website, www.ellevatenetwork.com, that's E-L-L-E-V-A-T-E network.com. And special thanks to our producer, Katherine Heller, she rocks. And to our voice over artist, Rachel Griesinger. Thanks so much and join us next week.


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